Hi
Pretty quiet in here...
Is there a party somehwere?
This season I've seen II queens go for some time (3 weeks-1 month) before laying.
Haven't found anything different from other years of II.
Anyone else observe this phenomena this year or in previous years?
Adam Finkelstein
(08-10-2010 04:23 PM)adamf Wrote: [ -> ]Hi
Pretty quiet in here...
Is there a party somehwere?
This season I've seen II queens go for some time (3 weeks-1 month) before laying.
Haven't found anything different from other years of II.
Anyone else observe this phenomena this year or in previous years?
Adam Finkelstein
Adam,
No, I can't say that I've seen such a thing. But then, I haven't met many people who have the patience to keep nurturing a queen that has not laid for three weeks or more...
What proportion of your queens are doing this?
Bob
(08-10-2010 08:43 PM)Bob Danka Wrote: [ -> ]Adam,
No, I can't say that I've seen such a thing. But then, I haven't met many people who have the patience to keep nurturing a queen that has not laid for three weeks or more...
What proportion of your queens are doing this?
Bob
Hello Bob,
Nice to hear from you.
This year we're seeing ~ 25% of our II queens show delayed oviposition.
We're performing our usual post-II CO2 treatment and
we've used semen from diverse sources.
For some reason, this year's queens are taking their sweet time to lay.
Needless to say, this phenomena makes me worried.
Of the late layers, 90% do lay. The others--well I gave up on them and moved on.
Adam
(08-10-2010 04:23 PM)adamf Wrote: [ -> ]Hi
Pretty quiet in here...
Is there a party somehwere?
This season I've seen II queens go for some time (3 weeks-1 month) before laying.
Haven't found anything different from other years of II.
Anyone else observe this phenomena this year or in previous years?
Adam Finkelstein
Have you changed your diluent this year? Formulation, age, sterilization, etc. Even a little change can have dramatic affects.
Have you tried giving three CO2 treatments at least 24 hrs. apart? I prefer to give only two treatments, some people give three. I will give a queen three doses of CO2 if she does not start laying by the second week.
Garrett
(08-11-2010 07:13 AM)garrettdodds Wrote: [ -> ]Have you changed your diluent this year? Formulation, age, sterilization, etc. Even a little change can have dramatic affects.
Have you tried giving three CO2 treatments at least 24 hrs. apart? I prefer to give only two treatments, some people give three. I will give a queen three doses of CO2 if she does not start laying by the second week.
Garrett
Hello Garrett,
Nice to hear from you.
Good points about changes in materieals/procedure, but no we're doing everything the same.
That's why I'm at a loss as to why this year, we're seeing this. The only difference is that we're performing the II in a different physical location. Maybe something in the air?
I've considered a third CO2 treatment--but have been trying to avoid that. I read somewhere that the queens could possibly not live as long as they were exposed to more time under CO2 narcosis. However, that you and others are aware of this situation and employ a third CO2 treatment, is heartening. Thank you for the info.
Sincerely,
Adam
(08-11-2010 08:02 AM)adamf Wrote: [ -> ] (08-11-2010 07:13 AM)garrettdodds Wrote: [ -> ]Have you changed your diluent this year? Formulation, age, sterilization, etc. Even a little change can have dramatic affects.
Have you tried giving three CO2 treatments at least 24 hrs. apart? I prefer to give only two treatments, some people give three. I will give a queen three doses of CO2 if she does not start laying by the second week.
Garrett
Hello Garrett,
Nice to hear from you.
Good points about changes in materieals/procedure, but no we're doing everything the same.
That's why I'm at a loss as to why this year, we're seeing this. The only difference is that we're performing the II in a different physical location. Maybe something in the air?
I've considered a third CO2 treatment--but have been trying to avoid that. I read somewhere that the queens could possibly not live as long as they were exposed to more time under CO2 narcosis. However, that you and others are aware of this situation and employ a third CO2 treatment, is heartening. Thank you for the info.
Sincerely,
Adam
Adam,
I am at a loss for your situation. Have you tried dissecting the queens that have the delayed egg laying to check for some type of infection, or something unusual? I have dissected (crudely in the field) queens before that never started laying and have found some that have white hard ovaries! I have no idea what it was or what caused it, but Sue Cobey said that she had noticed the same thing before.
Just trying to throw out some ideas. That is the nice thing with this forum, we can throw out a situation and other members can brainstorm on possible solutions.
There are not too many inseminator/breeders out there to discuss this topic with on a daily basis.
I will do some checking to see if others have had this problem.
Garrett
(08-11-2010 09:42 PM)garrettdodds Wrote: [ -> ]Adam,
I am at a loss for your situation. Have you tried dissecting the queens that have the delayed egg laying to check for some type of infection, or something unusual? I have dissected (crudely in the field) queens before that never started laying and have found some that have white hard ovaries! I have no idea what it was or what caused it, but Sue Cobey said that she had noticed the same thing before.
Garrett, yes indeed we did! Found exactly as you describe. Sort of
calcified ovaries.
So this is some pathology that is unexplained. More unknowns in the apiculture world!
Hopefully the 3rd CO2 treatment will work for some of the non-layers, and they won't become
like the ones you're describing.
Quote:Just trying to throw out some ideas. That is the nice thing with this forum, we can throw out a situation and other members can brainstorm on possible solutions. There are not too many inseminator/breeders out there to discuss this topic with on a daily basis.
Yes, hearing from you and others about conditions and outcomes in the field is very helpful.
Sometimes with II one feels adrift in a sea of unknown!
Quote:I will do some checking to see if others have had this problem.
Garrett
Many thanks!
Adam
(08-10-2010 04:23 PM)adamf Wrote: [ -> ]Hi
Pretty quiet in here...
Is there a party somehwere?
This season I've seen II queens go for some time (3 weeks-1 month) before laying.
Haven't found anything different from other years of II.
Anyone else observe this phenomena this year or in previous years?
Adam Finkelstein
The breeder I got from you had a very slow start, but I thought maybe it was her support bees in the nuc. She didn't fill out the frames as quickly as natural mated queens do, considering I was doing heavy feeding of the nuc.
So far the II Queen from you is surviving. End of August last year was the first II Queen's life span. I have kept some of her daughters.
I am thinking of best ways to overwinter the breeder. Any suggestions ?
(08-18-2010 05:43 AM)ZZZnature Wrote: [ -> ]The breeder I got from you had a very slow start, but I thought maybe it was her support bees in the nuc. She didn't fill out the frames as quickly as natural mated queens do, considering I was doing heavy feeding of the nuc.
So far the II Queen from you is surviving. End of August last year was the first II Queen's life span. I have kept some of her daughters.
I am thinking of best ways to overwinter the breeder. Any suggestions ?
Hi Zelma,
Nice to hear about the breeder. From our experiences with II queens, some lay like natuarally mated ones, and some do not--as long as you can graft from them, and they aren't constantly trying to being superceeded by their support colony, they're useful and acheiving their purpose in a breeding program.
You didn't mention how the daughters from her are. Or how the daughters from the previous queen are. How are they? Have you been able to evaluate them at all? Here, daughters from similar cross as your 2010 breeder, have been doing extremely well.
Adam
(08-18-2010 08:38 AM)adamf Wrote: [ -> ] (08-18-2010 05:43 AM)ZZZnature Wrote: [ -> ]The breeder I got from you had a very slow start, but I thought maybe it was her support bees in the nuc. She didn't fill out the frames as quickly as natural mated queens do, considering I was doing heavy feeding of the nuc.
So far the II Queen from you is surviving. End of August last year was the first II Queen's life span. I have kept some of her daughters.
I am thinking of best ways to overwinter the breeder. Any suggestions ?
Hi Zelma,
Nice to hear about the breeder. From our experiences with II queens, some lay like natuarally mated ones, and some do not--as long as you can graft from them, and they aren't constantly trying to being superceeded by their support colony, they're useful and acheiving their purpose in a breeding program.
You didn't mention how the daughters from her are. Or how the daughters from the previous queen are. How are they? Have you been able to evaluate them at all? Here, daughters from similar cross as your 2010 breeder, have been doing extremely well.
Adam
How did I miss this question? Well, it's much later, but the daughters I kept flourished. Reports are excellent from other beekeepers who have them. Yesterday I attended a beekeepers meeting in another county and heard about the survival of our VP Allegro daughters. (We had a long cold tough winter here with snow on the ground today) There were a few warm days when beekeepers were in their hives. One happy beekeeper told me the queen daughter he purchased was booming with brood. Another said all of the queens he got from us on an exchange for some of his black gentle bee stock, had survived the winter and the bees were making bur comb in his feed spacer. All of the VP Allegro daughters that I overwintered made it (so far). The II breeder is alive as of 5 days ago, but the build up is not as good as her daughters yet. This is a Mar. 2011 after bad winter report.